Lula Tells New York Times ‘Brazil’s Sovereignty Must Be Respected’

July 31—Brazilian President Lula da Silva, in an interview with the New York Times published July 30, forcefully elaborated on his approach to the Trump administration’s tariff threats, beginning with the direct statement that Brazil is a sovereign country which deserves respect. Interviewed by the outgoing New York Times bureau chief in Brazil Jack Nicas, Lula said if he had the chance, he would tell Trump that “Brazilians and Americans do not deserve to be victims of politics.” If the cause of the current conflict is the case against former President Jair Bolsonaro (who is being investigated for plotting a coup against Lula in late 2022 and early 2023), Lula said “I think the situation does not merit this. Brazil has a Constitution and the former President (Bolsonaro) is being tried with a full right to a defense.”

Lula explained that he and Trump haven’t been able to talk because in Washington “no one wants to talk.” After ten meetings on trade with the U.S. Commerce Department, he said, Brazil sent a letter on May 16 asking for a response and instead got Trump’s letter posted to Truth Social threatening 50% tariffs if Lula didn’t stop “persecuting” Bolsonaro. As for criticizing Trump, Lula said he’s not worried. “There’s no reason to be afraid. I am worried … but at no point will Brazil negotiate as if it were a small country up against a big country. Brazil will negotiate as a sovereign country.”

In negotiating, he continued, “we always need to find a middle ground.” You don’t achieve this by “puffing out your chest and shouting about things you can’t deliver, not by bowing your head and simply saying ‘Amen’ to whatever the United States wants.” When Nicas told him about likely U.S. sanctions on Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes, who is handling the Bolsonaro case, Lula replied: “If what you’re telling me is true, it’s more serious than I imagined. The Supreme Court of a country has to be respected not only by its own country, but it has to be respected by the world.” Today, the U.S. State Department announced that it is imposing sanctions on De Moraes for “serious human rights abuse” under the Magnitsky Act.

If the U.S. imposes 50% tariffs, Lula added, “I’m not saying nothing will happen, but I am saying that we have to wait for D-Day to know.” On his statements that the Jair Bolsonaro case is “non-negotiable,” Nicas asked Lula, “then what is negotiable?” who replied that Trump should decide: “If he wants to have a political fight, then let’s treat it as a political fight. If he wants to talk trade, let’s sit down and discuss trade. But you can’t mix everything together…. So, that’s what I hope he reflects on. I honestly don’t know what Trump has heard about me. But if he got to know me, he’d know that I’m 20 times better than Bolsonaro.” And, if tariffs actually take effect? “I’m not going to cry over spilled milk.”

“If the United States doesn’t want to buy something of ours, we are going to look for someone who will. We have an extraordinary trade relationship with China. If the United States and China want to have a Cold War, we won’t accept it. I have no preference. I have an interest in selling to whoever wants to buy from me—to whoever pays more.”

Proud of his own history as an effective trade union negotiator, Lula warned, “not even my worst enemy could say that Lula doesn’t like to negotiate. I learned politics by negotiating. I have nothing against Trump’s ideology. Trump is an issue for the American people to deal with. They voted for him. End of story. I’m not going to question the sovereign right of the American people, because I don’t want them questioning mine.” The Brazilian daily Congreso em Foco reported on Lula’s comment that “if you have a political or trade problem, you pick up the phone and arrange a meeting, you talk and try to solve the problem. What you don’t do is tax (tariffs) and give ultimatums.”