No More Hiroshimas or Nagasakis: Interview with Dr. Akiko Mikamo

Aug. 9—As the world remembers the unnecessary U.S. atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on August 6th and 9th 1945, with enormous loss of lives, Helga Zepp-LaRouche interviews Dr. Akiko Mikamo, author of the book 8:15 A True Story of Survival and Forgiveness from Hiroshima* and the film, “8:15 Hiroshima—From Father to Daughter,” based on a first-hand account of her father Shinji Mikamo.

Dr. Akiko Mikamo is a Japanese psychologist, author, and the executive producer of the film. The film presents the horrifying reality of nuclear war from Shinji Mikamo’s perspective, but also provides the basis on which future wars can be avoided, through love, forgiveness, and compassion for the other. Such a message has never been more needed than now, on the 80th anniversary of the first use of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, two events which have not been properly understood by the American public, but which show us the horrifying truth of nuclear warfare.*

HELGA ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Good day. I’m very happy to introduce to you our special guest for today, Dr. Akiko Mikamo, who is the world-famous author of the book 8:15 A True Story of Survival and Forgiveness from Hiroshima and also a film, based on the same documentation, “8:15 Hiroshima—From Father to Daughter.” She is the daughter of two survivors from Hiroshima, and she has made available the memory of her family so that the world would have a warning. And I’m very happy that you are joining us, today, the 80th anniversary of that horrible day of the Hiroshima bombing, where the first nuclear bomb ever in history was dropped on a civilian, totally defenseless population. And I think, in light of the fact that we are today in a world where unfortunately the danger of nuclear war is very close, and there are many experts in the world who share my personal opinion, that we are in a situation more dangerous than during the Cuban Missile Crisis, for reasons which we can discuss.

But I want to welcome you, Dr. Akiko Mikamo and I want to ask you, can you tell us, the international listeners and viewers, what is your thought about that day, 80 years after the tragic events of Hiroshima?

DR. AKIKO MIKAMO: Thank you very much, Helga, and thank you very much for having me; and hello everybody. That I was watching the Hiroshima ceremony, and also our small organization did a streaming event at the same time. And we have a Yokohama Friendship Bell, because—and I’m based on San Diego, California, and San Diego is the sister city with Yokohama city in Japan—and we have a big temple bell (it’s not a temple bell, but just a big bell) in a park nearby the water here. And we always gong the bell at 8:15 in Japan time, which is the time of the explosion on Hiroshima. So, while they have the Hiroshima ceremony and gong the bell, we also gong the bell, as well. And my hope is, in the future that everybody in the world will gong the bell, or ring the bell, or just put down the weapons for a day, at least a second, and take a reflection moment, that what we are doing. And that so many things happen when we are very righteous, that we, as a human, we have a tendency to believe something we’re doing is right and the other party is doing is wrong, or the other party is threatening our righteousness, and that’s how we kill each other—and that’s a very, very sad thing!

You know, the tears came to my eyes on Aug. 6, Japan time—in Europe and the Americas, it was almost Aug. 5—just imaging how many tens of thousands of people were killed instantaneously and suffered; that my father was one of the very, very miraculously survivors. If you see my movie, it’s a reenactment, so it’s not the real scene, but we do have archives, the real pictures and videos as well in the movie. And you can imagine, but it is beyond imagination. We are trying to kill each other and annihilate the whole of humanity, by doing what we’re doing right now, in many countries and many regions in the world.

So it felt so imminent, it felt very urgent on that day.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: I can tell you that in Berlin, there is a very important organization fighting for peace, and they also, at 8:15, rang the bell this morning, and our members participated in that. So there are places around the world where people are mindful of that incredible event. But unfortunately, I must say that, in a certain sense, Japan and Germany, for good or for bad, had a joint historical connection. I can only say, in Germany right now, I’m absolutely shocked, because it is as if the memory of the destruction of the Second World War has been gone. There are still some old people, who lived through that, but they don’t speak out. And there are generations afterwards, who, somehow, have completely put this out of their mind. And I’m asking you, is that the same thing in Japan?

MIKAMO: It is, very much—I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off—but it is very much the same: The younger generations—I had a high school volunteer to work with me for the ceremony here, for the Hiroshima memorial, and that high school student, who is very industrious and studious, serious, she told me, before she got involved in this movement and actual ceremony, Hiroshima was like the French Revolution in her mind: So, somewhere, far away in the country, somewhere far away back in history, or Napoleon, or some medieval things: That it’s something you learn from the history books, nothing to do with her or her family or her life. But, when she got involved in this ceremony and learned about my parents’ stories and other things, she felt, “Wow! This could happen, and I need to take it seriously.”

So, a lot of people, especially in the younger generations, they’re kind of used to computer games and killing things in the games, so life and death, the notion and the sensations about life and death became so watered down—so, it is very true. The younger generations don’t know, a little bit older, maybe middle-aged generations, are forgetting about it, gradually, as well.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: I did watch your movie, which is really breath-taking, and I can only suggest to all our viewers that you absolutely must look at this video, this movie, because it really gets across the absolute hopeless, that once you have a nuclear exchange, that’s it! You know, people are being burned alive at 4,000° Celsius, and people who are in the center die immediately, and then the radiation will kill people later. So, I think the watching of your move is an absolute must.

But still, given the fact that you are a very accomplished psychologist, from our previous discussions I can say that. I’m asking you this question: How can it be that a collective memory of nations, in that case Japan and Germany, can so evaporate? Because when you had the 80th anniversary of the Potsdam Declaration, and I was invited to give a talk about it, at a conference, so I looked at some of the movies, the documentaries of how Berlin looked: Berlin was completely flat, rubble. Houses were just flat. And in the period before, the last phase of the Second World War, people were running for their lives, they were dislocated, there were bombs falling every night. How can it be that people put this out of their minds so completely that they allow for the warmongers today to say things which could end up in the same, and even more horrible way? I mean, you have some about this, but what is your view?

MIKAMO: OK. There is a saying in Japanese: “Once it passes the throat, you forget how hot the drink was, or drink or food was.” And it is in human nature, and it’s actually from psychologists’ point of view, it is actually an adaptive defense mechanism that we naturally have. We have had that of certain hot, painful event, but once it has passed, we try to heal and we unconsciously try to forget about it. And I think that’s what’s happening as a collective humanity: We try to forget about it. However, as John Hersey said, that what kept the world safe is the memory of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, to a certain extent. But then, he wrote the book, back in the 1950s or ’60s, and since then, we, as humanity, unconsciously try to forget about it, forget about it, forget about it, and we have had massacres in the history, that, luckily, there was no actual nuclear war, but we have come very close. And now, like you all know, the Doomsday Clock is 89 seconds—it was 90 seconds, but they had to move 1 second toward midnight, and it is the closest ever in human history.

So, this issue is urgent. And we really need to advocate—especially young people—that we need to make a move now, as the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists would say, every second we don’t do anything, we are getting close to the danger of annihilation.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Just a very short time ago, President Trump responded to some feeds from the former President of Russia Dmitry Medvedev, where he basically said, “Oh, I will now deploy two nuclear submarines closer to the borders of Russia.” And on previous occasions, he had said, “the United States has the biggest submarines, and we have the biggest machines,” as if these were like toys, you know. And what is so scary is that you have now leaders, unfortunately also in Germany, who are pronouncing policies which, as a consequence could lead to an escalation with the largest nuclear weapons power in the world—which happens to be Russia and not the United States, even though the difference may be irrelevant if it ever comes to a nuclear exchange.

What can you say about what the people should do, because I’m absolutely certain that if you ask the majority of people, they would absolutely say “Never again!” as they did 80 years ago, and they would not want war, because it’s them who would die in the war. But nevertheless, you have these political leaders who seem to gamble with the existence of their nations.

What’s the message to Germany, in particular?

MIKAMO: Germany, from my understanding, Germany has learned from the history, and they have shifted the education for the children and the youngsters, that the power in the war or conflict situation is not really the power. It might be a defeat, or it might be winning, but nobody wins in the war: That the leaders may feel like they won, because it’s not their families or their immediate circle of people who, most of the time, are in danger. They send the troops.

So, I do think that Germany is one really good example, that has learned from the history and is actively working toward a nuclear war free world, and that as a country. So, I think we need to think about that and we need to learn from that, too.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I hear what you say, but I think from my point of view, it looks a little bit different. Because, Germany has been praised a lot that we did look at our guilt in the Second World War, and that it has been incorporated into the school education and so forth, and that’s true. However, it has been, retrospectively limited and shifted primarily to the Holocaust. It did not discuss the damage done to the people of the Soviet Union, who lost 27 million people in the Second World War. Naturally, we never mention what happened in the Pacific: That has been torn off completely. But even if you look at the Holocaust right now, given the fact that you have genocide going on in Gaza, the German position has been really, really, very hands off; nobody dares to talk about it only in the last week or so, when the news became so overwhelming that nobody could deny it. There has been a certain shift, but still, I think they did not even stop sending weapons to Israel, in spite of it.

But, obviously, what follows out of all of that, would be one really has to review what actually happened! What was the history? And not have a selective memory which only suits the present narrative.

MIKAMO: That’s very true. I agree with you.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: So we have now a situation, where the danger is—it seems that Global NATO is positioning a lot of missiles in the Pacific, around the Philippines; then also naturally in Europe, close to Russia; close to China. And just yesterday or so, the Russian Foreign Ministry put out a statement, saying that they are also now no longer adhering to their unilateral obeying the former INF Treaty. The INF Treaty had been cancelled by President Trump in his first term. So they are now placing all these medium-range missiles—both sides—I mean, isn’t that inviting trouble in the short term?

MIKAMO: Yes. It’s very much so. I don’t know if you have watched and heard Hiroshima Prefecture Governor Hidehiko Yuzaki’s peace declaration at the Hiroshima ceremony: He talked about nuclear deterrence as a myth. It’s just an idea, it’s not the real thing, that nations and leaders might think that if a certain country has nuclear weapons, or international ballistic missiles to carry the nuclear heads, that would deter other countries from using weapons. However, the history has shown, a lot of times, those deterrence theories have been broken by either an egotist leader, or rather uninformed or intellectually insufficient leaders, or by mistake, or something else, that that has been broken, and the wars have happened—though not the nuclear ones, except for Hiroshima and Nagasaki—but in the history, there have been many wars and conflicts, because deterrence didn’t work. And it could take just one mistake, or one wrong decision, or one not-reasonable leader, to put us in danger of the doomed.

So, I strongly recommend that it is available in English, as well. In the media, you can search for Governor Hidehiko Yuzaki’s peace declaration, and I would like everybody to read it, and it is very direct. And it’s the message that everybody should really take to heart.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, it seems that the idea is that you can actually have a tactical nuclear war, and I personally believe that that is an illusion, as well. Ted Postol, who is probably world’s best nuclear expert, he wrote many books about the topic, and he made the argument that it is the logic of nuclear weapons, that once you use one, the likelihood that they all will get into play is almost 100%. And naturally, if that happens, then that is ending life on Earth, because in all likelihood, a nuclear winter would follow, and all life would disappear. Given the fact that the warning time is—I don’t know exactly—5 minutes? 10 minutes? Somewhere in that vicinity, what is your view about the possibility to have a tactical nuclear war? Do you think that that is at all possible, or not?

MIKAMO: I think it is always a possibility. The probability may not be high, hopefully, but it is always possible. As long as we have nuclear weapons in possession, somewhere on Earth—even one—there’s always a danger. And the nuclear abolition is the only way for humans to survive as a humanity: That’s what my belief is.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Is the statement which was made last November at a meeting of the CSIS in Washington, where Adm. Tom Buchanan, I think he was Director for the Plans and Policy Directorate at USSTRATCOM, but he made a statement saying that he thought the United States could win a tactical nuclear war, and the reason why it could be legitimate is to keep dominance in the world, and the only reservation he made was to say, we have to make sure we have enough nuclear weapons to then still have the dominant position afterwards. In my view, this is such an unbelievable statement, and then, there are no comments! The mainstream media are not commenting on that, the main politicians around the world are not making a wide distancing from that—so I think that still stands there, that there may be people in high positions in the Pentagon—I don’t think President Trump has evoked that statement or basically said he is not following this. So I mean, that is so unbelievable, and there is no discussion about it!

MIKAMO: Well, I don’t know enough about policies; I’m a psychologist and I work with the human psyche, and I’m not an expert in the policies and in politics. However, the key [audio loss 23:10]…

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: I was saying that the announcement that the U.S. was able to fight a tactical nuclear war, just to make sure they had enough nuclear weapons afterward, to keep the dominant position in the world, and I was asking your comment.

MIKAMO: I’ll repeat what I said: So, when they talk about those technical wars and who has more and who has more advanced nuclear weapons, that they’re all talking and looking at things from the above mushroom cloud; that we all know the pictures of mushroom clouds that happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And people look at it, and people think about it, and people look things from above the nuclear mushroom cloud, and say, “Oh, we should drop it. We should keep it. We should make it. We should not drop it.” That’s what we see, or they see. But, what happens under, beneath the mushroom cloud is the actual things that humans go through, and they don’t really think about that.

So, it is extremely important, in my belief, that people, especially the young generations, who may become leaders in the world in the near future, or in the future, to learn about what has actually happened, what humans went through underneath the mushroom clouds. And there are some stories and documents, but there are not many first-person accounts of what has happened, because they didn’t survive. Within the 100% demolition zone, which is about 2 miles radius, 1.75 miles, or maybe 2.8 km radius in Hiroshima, more than 99% of people who were outside, either died immediately by becoming charcoal, evaporating and just almost melting if they’re outside, immediately, or, within 48 hours.

So, not many people survived from that proximity. And my father, and my mother as well, are the ones that are very, very, miraculously able to survive. And so, it is really important for us to remember and learn about their actual experiences, just to be aware of what happens under the mushroom cloud.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I can confirm that while the Oppenheimer movie got a lot of notoriety, they completely leave out exactly that side, what you are describing. And given the fact that it is the people who will die, if we don’t avoid this danger, I really would like very much to invite you to come to Europe, because I think that Europe right now is on a trajectory which, I can only say, if we don’t change it, it could become suicidal. And, would you be willing to come to Europe, and give talks about your experience, and your book and you movie?

MIKAMO: Yes. I would be delighted—“delighted” is not the right word—but I would be honored, and very, very glad to do that. But Europe—I actually love Europe: I went to an international business school in France, and I have interacted with a lot of Europeans, and I have been to Europe, probably more than 60 times, but not with this purpose; that I haven’t had an opportunity to work with an organization, or community, or school, to show my movie, or give a talk, and share the stories in my book. I would really love to do that.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I must say that the way you have worked through this personal experience of your family and your life, is extremely to be admired. Because I also believe that we have to eventually arrive at a higher level of the Sublime, that we have to be able to forgive, because if we don’t do that, the cycle of violence will continue to escalate. And we see, right now, I would say, in large parts of the world an increase of violence and mindless violence, of plunging into barbarism of humanity.

So, I think this message you are conveying about the need to educate your emotions and become more loving, I 100% agree. The only problem is, right now, we have right now, awakened the world, because I’m really thinking every minute of every day, almost: What can be done to bring humanity away from the abyss? So if you have any words of wisdom on that point—

MIKAMO: Well, I don’t have a magic wand or magic pill to change everything. But, the educating, in a formal way and informal way, within the family: Parents learning about the emotional intelligence; parents learning about compassion and forgiveness, and how to show that in a difficult situation: That if you have a quarrel with a neighbor, what do you do? Do you just hate and pout, and tell the children how horrible the neighbor is? Or, do you look at it from a different perspective, and teach the children how to live with it, how to interact with people with different beliefs, or different perspectives. And that makes a difference.

So, if we can reach the parents, and the leaders, and the children and youth, to really shift the mindset, even when you feel wronged. Yes, justice needs to be served, and that’s a different thing, and hopefully the society and the legal system will do the justice. But emotionally, we have a choice, to become a little bit higher being—I don’t mean the higher—but as a human, and a little bit higher level of development emotionally, to look at things from different perspectives and learn from it, and, really give back to humanity: That’s what I firmly believe in. That’s the only way, I can think of.

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Well, I wish that some politicians who have given up on diplomacy altogether, would listen to your words. Because, if you eliminate diplomacy and negotiation and talking to the other side, then naturally, the only thing which is left is an escalation of the spiral of violence.

So, I really would like to invite you to come to Europe and preferably before it is too late, because I’m extremely concerned that we are on the wrong path right now in Europe. The whole idea of militarization, of rearming Europe, of trying to outdo Russia in terms of weapons, which I think is a futile effort, given the technological advances Russia has made; and that it’s a vast country, nuclear powered, they have now the Oreshnik missile for which there’s no defense against it: So, the very idea to try to solve this conflict without diplomacy is just completely crazy.

So, if you have any final words for our international audience, but especially the European ones, I would ask you to speak out.

MIKAMO: OK. The Schiller Institute and its affiliated organizations is kindly hosting the film screening on Aug. 16, in New York: So, people who are on the East Coast, that I hope people can attend, and actually whom I would like to meet in person this time; and I believe it’s also screen globally, as well. So, I would invite all of you to watch my film, and listen to my talk, and other experts talk afterwards, and think about that what actually happens and what we need to do, and that it is not somebody else’s story. It’s not about some other countries’ struggles: It’s our matter. And I want everybody to feel that we need to take this in our own hands. And I really hope I will meet many of you in Europe, when things are arranged and I’m able to come, to give a talk and maybe share the film, that I’m looking forward very much to it!

ZEPP-LAROUCHE: Thank you very much. We will work very hard to make your tour come true in the near future. So, Dr. Akiko Mikamo, I thank you very much for your efforts, because it’s so important for mankind to wake up to hear you: Thank you so much!